It is Time to Take Charge of Your Fertility

Trying to conceive can be a frustrating and lonely journey. In this episode, Amy chats with Shelby Van Cleave (MAOM., L.Ac., FABORM. Clinical Director and Fertility Expert), a licensed acupuncturist and holistic fertility specialist, about taking charge of your fertility health. Shelby discusses the reasons why some women struggle to conceive, the importance of preconception care, and the emotional toll of infertility.  She also shares her course, Wild Rose Woman, a comprehensive program designed to empower women on their fertility journeys, whether they are trying naturally, going through IVF, or a combination of both.

Key Points
Holistic Approach to Fertility: Shelby VanCleve emphasizes a holistic approach to fertility, combining acupuncture, functional medicine, and lifestyle modifications.
Impact of Modern Lifestyle: Factors like delayed childbearing, birth control use, and environmental toxins can negatively impact fertility.
Male Factor in Infertility: Shelby highlights the importance of addressing male fertility issues, which are often overlooked.
Emotional and Psychological Impact: Infertility can have a significant emotional toll on individuals and couples.
The Power of Self-Care: Practices like meditation, yoga, and stress reduction can positively impact fertility.
Empowering Women: Shelby's course, "Wild Rose Woman," empowers women to take control of their fertility journey through education and self-care.
Challenging Traditional Medical Approaches: She encourages women to question conventional medical advice and seek alternative approaches that address the root causes of infertility.

LINKS TO OTHER SPEAKER RELATED INFORMATION
www.commongroundlouisville.com
IG @common_ground_wellness 
@wild_rose_woman

Author: Amy (host of the podcast)
Guest Speaker: Shelby Van Cleave, Licensed Acupuncturist and Holistic Fertility Specialist
Category: Health & Wellness, Women's Health

Transcript

[00:00:00] Amy: Hello, everyone. Welcome back. I'm really excited to introduce Shelby Van Cleave to you today. She's an acupuncturist and a holistic fertility specialist. Shelby empowers and supports women on their fertility journey, a topic that's close to my heart. Shelby, welcome to the show. Thank you very much for joining.

[00:00:19] Amy: I just want you to jump right in. Tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do and why you do it. 

[00:00:25] Shelby VanCleve: Sure. I'd love to. So I'm an acupuncturist and I've been in clinical practice since 2009. Just a couple of years into practice, I was just getting a influx of women that were struggling to get pregnant. And I decided that I needed to figure out how to help these women and hold space with them and walk with them.

[00:00:44] Shelby VanCleve: And so beginning around 2014, I started to delve into holistic fertility and got certified by the ABORN, which is an international certifying body for those of us that practice East Asian medicine that want to specialize in reproductive health. And so I sat for certification in 2017 and then furthermore went into functional medicine training for women's health with Dr.

[00:01:11] Shelby VanCleve: 2020. And so, you know, beyond just acupuncture, I've just taken a deep dive into supporting women's health on many levels over the past, over 15 years of practice. 

[00:01:23] Amy: Thank you for sharing that, Shelby. I, an immediate question that popped into my mind is, you know, [00:01:30] you were saying that you have people walking through the door, women walking through the door who are struggling to fall pregnant. And I don't know if it's because it's just maybe talked about more, or because of the age group I'm now in, but I'm hearing that a lot.

[00:01:43] Amy: I, myself, was one of those women. And do we think that this is something that's occurring more frequently, that women are struggling to fall pregnant? Or is it, like I said, just spoken about more? 

[00:01:55] Shelby VanCleve: Well, you know, that's a curious question. But I do think that there's multiple factors involved, you know, first of all, a lot of women are delaying pregnancy because they're going to school for longer periods of time and then pursuing a career. And so they're attempting to get pregnant at a time when their fertility is declining.

[00:02:14] Shelby VanCleve: In addition to that, a lot of women are put on birth control from a young age. They'll go and they'll have heavy periods or they'll have irregular cycles. And instead of addressing those conditions, they're put on birth control. And so when they come off of the birth control and they want to fall pregnant, They still have to deal with those issues that were there all along.

[00:02:33] Shelby VanCleve: And the third factor is, you know, in our modern industrialized society, we're exposed to a lot of things that historically we were not exposed to. Endocrine disrupting chemicals, pollutants, terrible food. And all of those things are impacting our overall health and as well as the health of our ovarian and testicle tissues. 

[00:02:54] Amy: And I'm happy that you just mentioned about testicle issues there at the end, only because I wanted to [00:03:00] ask you, are you only seeing women? Are you treating men as well?

[00:03:04] Amy: Can you share a little bit about that? 

[00:03:05] Shelby VanCleve: I treat primarily women because that's primarily who walks through the door and I do treat their partners by proxy. I do feel like there is more shame in the male population and in regards to infertility, where women tend to be a little bit more proactive. In addition in most fertility clinics, the woman is the patient.

[00:03:28] Shelby VanCleve: No matter what the diagnosis is and the truth of the matter is, is treatments like IUI and IVF are technically treatments for male factor. They don't treat female infertility at all. You know, drugs like Clomid ovulation induction medications. Those can treat ovulatory disorders in women, but when you're going and doing sperm washes and then injecting the sperm into the egg, they're That's, that's a male factor treatment.

[00:03:52] Shelby VanCleve: But again, the patient is always the woman. And so they are the ones that show up in my office, but you better believe Amy, I'm going to hold that boy responsible and he has to do his job, even if he doesn't show up at my office to, to get my tasks. 

[00:04:06] Amy: You know, it's interesting, isn't it? And quite frustrating that it really does fall on the shoulders of the woman to fix her health, to, you know, make all these lifestyle changes which are beneficial in many cases, but But you're right, it's the woman who walks through the door, and I see it, you know, in my Reiki practice.

[00:04:28] Amy: Again, I, I [00:04:30] went through IVF, and I was the one who initiated all that. I was the one going and seeing Well, what's wrong with me that I'm not falling pregnant and it wasn't until I got there that they said, Oh, you know, well, you need to, we need to test your husband for X, Y, and Zed and, and really started that process.

[00:04:47] Amy: And, you know, he was very on board with that and, as you should be, but I also hear from, you know, my peers that their partners aren't so receptive to putting in the work to increase the chances of falling pregnant and it's quite frustrating and you mentioned shame, there's a lot of shame around infertility and I just, wish we could kind of change that narrative.

[00:05:14] Amy: , are you seeing the narrative changing as you've been working? You've said you've been working since 2009, which I don't know, I just, I can't imagine it not changing. So I'd like for you to share a little bit about that with me. 

[00:05:26] Shelby VanCleve: Yeah, I do think it is changing. But it really depends on the personality of the couple. And so I always encourage couples when they come in to be talking to other people about it because it's so much more common than they really think that it is. And you know, there are some old school conservative type Parents, especially that really can't wrap their head around fertility treatments.

[00:05:51] Shelby VanCleve: And so of course those couples are going to struggle with sharing with their family about that. But you know, as far as male factor goes, , it's [00:06:00] 30 percent female infertility, 30 percent male infertility and 30 percent a combination of the two. And so we're really looking at a 50, 50 split.

[00:06:09] Shelby VanCleve: But especially here in the United States You know, if it's male factor and the male has fertility coverage through his insurance, but it's the woman that's going through IVF, the insurance will not pay for those treatments, even if it's diagnosed male factor. So, you know, it's always falling on the woman.

[00:06:28] Shelby VanCleve: And it doesn't matter what the diagnosis is. She's going to come in feeling like. She can't fulfill her sole purpose that she can't, you know, as biologically we were meant to reproduce we are the ultimate creatrix is on this planet. Every life comes through our uteri. And if you can't perform that function, it can really weigh on your, your soul.

[00:06:51] Shelby VanCleve: And so these women come in broken. No matter what the diagnosis is, no matter whose issue it is. And so I do think that the more that it gets talked about, you know, there's more about it in social media. There's more about it in the news. I don't think it becomes any easier. I think the shame is still there, but at least they know that they're not the only ones that are going through this. 

[00:07:18] Amy: And it is very challenging. , like you said, many women are, are waiting until we're older. We were 37, well I was 37 before we decided to start trying. It is [00:07:30] frustrating because you kind of have to choose, don't you? Do I, you know, maybe potentially increase my chances by trying to fall pregnant younger, but I'm not ready yet and I want to finish school or do we wait and, you know, hope that everything still works 

[00:07:44] Amy: And, and so you, you know, you're waiting and then all of a sudden you, you get to this point where you think, okay, we're ready, we're going to try and have a baby. And in my experience, if I could speak to my own personal experience, we were going to try, but we were also thinking, okay, if it doesn't really work, you know, within the next two years, then we'll leave it and, and that's okay with us.

[00:08:06] Amy: But then we started the journey. And IVF is a difficult journey all of it I found quite challenging. I actually found the whole process of the appointments and the procedures and everything to do with all of that, the injections, I actually found that harder than my pregnancy. And I think a lot of it was the emotional.

[00:08:29] Amy: strain that it had on me. And even though my husband and I went into this thinking, you know, we're going to give it our best shot, but we're also okay if we don't have children, that quickly changed to, I really want this to work. With every injection it was, please, let this work, let this work. And it started to become this emotional stress, .

[00:08:52] Amy: Like it was all consuming and perhaps that's not the experience that every woman has but I did find that once we started the [00:09:00] journey It's all I thought about, you know, and they say well, you know, relax. Don't be stressed out. Just let your body do its thing That wasn't an option And so I did start you know, I practice Reiki and I'm very into the holistic realm.

[00:09:13] Amy: So I did start, you know, self Reiki treatments. I went and saw my Reiki master for treatments, and I did eventually go see an acupuncturist as well. And I'm a big believer that, you know, the whole of all of that, , really helped and boosted the IVF.

[00:09:31] Amy: So, you know, I want to know, when people walk through your door and, you know, they're feeling probably a little deflated and wondering what to do next, what does that look like and how can you support those women and men? 

[00:09:44] Shelby VanCleve: Well, I think the first thing that's important for them to know is that they do have options. You know, I think once you, like you said, once you get down, You start moving down that trajectory. It's like a snowball. It just keeps going. It's like, okay, we'll do three rounds of medicated cycles and then three rounds of IUI and then you move on to IVF and it's just like this protocol that they move you through.

[00:10:09] Shelby VanCleve: You don't have to do it that way. You can and I will talk you through what your options are here, but it's you, you don't have to be pigeonholed in that way. I also want them to prep their bodies as best they can for that process. And that includes diet [00:10:30] modifications, lifestyle adjustments, supplements.

[00:10:34] Shelby VanCleve: I refer out to a lot of different practitioners, whether that's a talk therapist or a body worker or, you know, we work through lifestyle aspects like What are you, what else are you creating in your life? If you can't, if you're having trouble creating a child what about art or cooking or gardening or something where you can channel that energy?

[00:10:56] Shelby VanCleve: And we talk through the emotions and, you know, acupuncture is so beautiful in that way. We can have a real heart to heart discussion for a half an hour. Just like you're in with a therapist and then I get to lay you down on the table and just kind of smooth out all the rough edges so that you feel better when you walk out instead of totally drained from hashing out all of your, your concerns.

[00:11:19] Shelby VanCleve: But you know, the experience of going through IVF for the vast majority of women is. Very traumatizing because they feel pretty disempowered. You know, the doctors like you have to do X, Y, and Z at these specific times in this specific way. And there's just really no wiggle for autonomy and choice.

[00:11:39] Shelby VanCleve: And I think that that's really, really scary and hard for women. Nevermind the side effects of the medications, which varies case by case, some women don't really notice anything at all. And some women literally lose their minds during that whole process, all for a very high price and no guarantee it's going [00:12:00] to work.

[00:12:00] Shelby VanCleve: And so, you know, there's, There's so much that goes into it and so much to tease out. But the important part is like there, there is a lot that you can do to maximize your your outcome and you don't have to do exactly what your doctor says. 

[00:12:17] Amy: Yeah, and that's something that I think A lot of people need to learn our doctors are people too, and they make mistakes and they're, they're going by what their experience is and what they've learned, and you're walking in that door already feeling pretty vulnerable. So you're looking for someone to tell you what to do and have all the right answers, but you need to.

[00:12:39] Amy: You really consider all options and, and walk in there strong, which is not an easy thing to do when you're at this point, you know, there's another episode where we talk about medical gaslighting and it's, it's far too common and I feel as though some medical professionals may take advantage of people when they walk through the door and they're feeling vulnerable like this because it's so hard to stand up for yourself and it's so hard to understand You're asking the question, why am I not pregnant yet?

[00:13:09] Amy: Why isn't this working? Why me? And when you have all of that weighing on your shoulders and then you have a doctor looking at you saying, you know, just these insensitive comments in many cases, it can be even further deflating. 

[00:13:24] Shelby VanCleve: Absolutely, and I don't know how it is where you are, but the vast majority of reproductive [00:13:30] endocrinologists in my area are men, which I find pretty frustrating. And, you know, speaking of that vulnerability, not only are you feeling, you know, like less of a woman, but the positions that they put you in to do these procedures are incredibly vulnerable.

[00:13:44] Shelby VanCleve: And then you're surrounded by men often unconscious at that time. And so the whole thing is a really, really scary experience, but you know, medical gaslighting is a thing, but I tend to think that the doctors really are doing their best and they have the best intentions. They just don't have a breadth of training.

[00:14:07] Shelby VanCleve: focused, specialized training. And so they can only tell you what they know and where I think that they really make the mistake is not taking into consideration what everybody else's training has been and what they know and need to get better about referring instead of my way is the only way. It's, we all know at this point with integrative medicine That the triage, you know, pulling in multiple modalities is the way that we're going to get the best benefit.

[00:14:37] Shelby VanCleve: And I get a little frustrated when I feel like these doctors kind of play God so to speak, and they don't pull in those resources that their patients absolutely need because, like you said, they feel broken and vulnerable and they need that buffer of, of autonomy and choice so that they can come through this a little less unscathed. 

[00:14:58] Amy: There's that element [00:15:00] too, like you said many of those doctors, particularly in the United States. Being male, they don't have an understanding, they've never been there, you know, and whether or not they've seen their wife go through it or if they've gone through that process to have their own children, it is different when you're the woman and, and you're feeling those feelings and injecting those hormones and being the one, you know, Having all those procedures done, like you said, the positions that you're in and conscious and unconscious, the conversations that you have to have.

[00:15:32] Amy: It's very difficult for a man to really understand what that must be like. 

[00:15:37] Shelby VanCleve: I think things would be a lot different in, in a lot of the different medical and political landscapes if the male was the patient. 

[00:15:44] 

[00:15:44] Amy: And we could talk about that in, in many industries, not just medicine, right? Shelby, you mentioned to me before we hit record that you offer a course, and I'd love for you to share that with us and where we can find it.

[00:15:58] Shelby VanCleve: And so over the course of, you know, working with women for the past two, almost two decades, I have found that My reach here in Louisville, Kentucky of the United States is so limited. And I knew more people needed the information that I had to share. And so I spent about two years, honestly, building this course that is called wild rose woman.

[00:16:22] Shelby VanCleve: And it's a 10 module holistic fertility course that covers everything that you need to know to take care of yourself, [00:16:30] whether you're trying to get pregnant naturally. Or you're going through IVF or a combination of the two. It covers diet lifestyle, self care, meditation, movement, supplements, anything and everything that could be causing your fertility struggle from lifestyle factors to hormonal factors, to food.

[00:16:50] Shelby VanCleve: physical factors and complex conditions such as endometriosis and PCOS and autoimmune infertility. We'll cover the basics of how to identify issues in your cycle, and then there's also a full module on all Western fertility treatments, interventions, and testing. thing. And you can find that course on my website at common ground Louisville dot com. 

[00:17:14] Amy: Thank you. That sounds very comprehensive, and I'm actually thinking that, There are certain modules in that that may just benefit women who aren't necessarily trying to fall pregnant with the tracking your cycle and what was it you said there about identifying some issues in your cycle. That's something I think that all women, you know, right from teenagers up could benefit from because there's still some, so limited research done on, on our menstrual cycles and how we navigate them for the many, many years that we have them. 

[00:17:44] Shelby VanCleve: Absolutely. And when I do telehealth fertility coaching and even in the treatment room with people as I'm walking through the information and what's called cycle science, the module that's on how to track your cycle and identify issues. It is what we should have learned in health [00:18:00] class and high school.

[00:18:01] Shelby VanCleve: But so many women, I mean, I'm literally talking to RNs, you know, nurse practitioners people that work in the healthcare system, they don't know it either. And so they're, you know, we're starting back at square one and of the things that we should have learned in health. Class instead of abstinence and fear mongering around STDs, 

[00:18:21] Amy: That's right. And this I mentioned this to a friend recently, actually. I remember in sexual education, pretty much being taught, like you said, abstinence and you will fall pregnant. You will fall pregnant and it will happen right away and it can happen the first time and the second time and it'll happen over and over again.

[00:18:43] Amy: And then you, you know, when we become in our thirties and we're trying to fall pregnant, it's like, well, that wasn't. That hasn't happened. Where is all this falling pregnant just thinking about it? So a lot of misinformation and, you're right, fear mongering around around sex, which is really unfortunate. 

[00:19:00] Shelby VanCleve: That's really unfortunate.

[00:19:02] Amy: yeah, incredibly. I'm, I'm so happy to have you join me here today, Shelby, and I want everyone to know who's listening I'll share the links that Shelby mentioned today and some more in the description of the episode. So go have a look at her website, feel free to reach out, take one of those telehealth appointments or send her an email.

[00:19:22] Amy: thanks again Shelby, it's been lovely. 

[00:19:24] Shelby VanCleve: Yeah, it's been great, Amy. I appreciate you having me.

[00:19:26] [00:19:30]